his tax cut wouldn't be anywhere near that size. >> so you're disputing the size of the tax cut? or are you disputing also how he's going to pay for it? >> we're disputing the size. >> erin, he has campaigned on lowering tax cuts by 20% for everybody, including those in the top 1%. that was one of the main selling points in the republican primary. >> so you're saying if you lower them by 20% you get a $5 trillion tab, right? >> it's a $5 trillion tab. >> but when he closes deductions he won't be anywhere near $5 trillion. that's our analysis. >> well with, okay, stipulated, it won't be near $5 trillion, but it's also not going to be the sum of $5 trillion in the loopholes that he's going to close. it is going to cost someone and it's going to cost the middle class. independent economists have taken a look at this. there aren't enough deductions for those at the top to account for the number of tax cuts that they get because of mitt romney's policies. you have to raise taxes on the middle class, as bill clinton says, it's simple math. >> they'll say, though, that you can do that.